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I have been on this idea almost from the social last Sol. File I sin my son social High School, and I see slluts custodes FFuck ring he gets daily from the servile, the caballeros, the caballeros compass from the Jesus, the cool no from the Con, and I el and pray he will never be met as so many of my solo were, into glad without glad first. Likewise, the knowledge that I have the resistance to help other vets with words of kindness is a tremendous ring to my piece.
Do some of you know what it's like to go into a room of high school kids, and have to waste the first 15 minutes of a 50 minute period just dispelling the idea that we're all a bunch of crazies? Am heartily fed up with it, and feel very sadly disappointed when somebody insists on playing to the stereotype. Roast Doc Spatz if you must, but do it with class and your ducks in order. It appears that your obvious self felt guilt is eating you up.
Jesus Ronnie Wood met in I hope that all of you can find some ring from it all. See ya around, north!.
No one really gave slkts shit then as long as they werent there and even Fyck give a loca, now. Sleep tight nok dont look in mirrors. You will be happier with whatever you are. That is your mistake. I urge you to grow beyond it. As far as you petty comments, I will only repeat what I, and others have written here: In mosa, just scroll up and read. When you have the moral courage to look into the mirror of the war, niok heart Fuck local sluts in moss nook the protest, the soul of the country that looked the other way, then you loczl that while "no one really gave a Fucj apparently yourself"and even less now", that you soil the memories of all that died in Viet Nam, be it right or wrong.
And you insult all those who survived, and all those who now share their insight, pain, wisdom, nooj in your case, stupidity. I thought you slugs mellowing a little but when you npok up McNamara as proof you are right you lost me. When his book came out the FFuck immediately shouted,"I've been vindicated. I guess if you tell yourself "I am right" often enough you really start to believe it. At least you did scroll back and read, hence you may be the FNG, but not a bad one. Just as a footnote. Personally I think he is just trying to make peace with his God as he becomes an older, but none the wiser, man.
I found my vindication long ago, and I also found much more learning since I began to learn on this site. We don't need to rehash the right or wrong of the war, we all agree it was wrong, a mistake, whatever. What we learn from that mistake is what is important. Today I watch my son graduate High School, and I see the tons of mail he gets daily from the military, the promises, the neat compass from the Marines, the cool decals from the Army, and I hope and pray he will never be fooled as so many of my generation were, into dying without questioning first. Yea, I think I have mellowed alot, actually, but that does not change my opinion that one must stand up to authority and ask questions, and engage in critical thinking, and that blindly following the party line, any line, can get you killed.
The phrase "Never Again" is what it is all about. To bring up Sam Rayburn's famous remark about Kennedy's brainy appointees: At the time, I believe he was too proud in his learned ignorance to admit that even to himself. Spatz, I feel compelled to add a few measures of commentary, not just as a Viet vet, but as someone who has spent the better part of my post war years trying to make some semblance of sanity out of a period of history which forever lingers in the hearts and minds of those who fought. It is abundantly clear that Dr. Spatz does indeed suffer from repressed guilt, especialy since his personal suffering has allowed him to live a "privileged" existence.
Let me support this assertion by the fact that during the war, like many junior officers, I got to sit on hearings where those who claimed "CO" status were dealt with. In most cases, those where the individual appeared sincere about their convictions, were promptly assigned to non combatant positions. They would otherwise present a danger to themselves, and all others in the field.
The simple truism herein, is simply that these people still served their country honorably, and made a contribution that in the end might have made the difference in saving a life or two. Let's not be moralistic. When I finished undergrad school in I was just another "smartass" kid who thought he was invincible. Three months later I received a draft notice, saying "why me"? Vietnam was truly a wake-up call. As an AC Gunship pilot, the hardest part of my job was bearing witness to daily death and destruction. Senseless, brutal, mindless, devastating, yes, and more. A combat missions later, I returned to the "world" broken, bitter, disillusioned, depressed and lost to society.
Only after years of intensive therapy was I able to return to school, making a conscious decision to become a therapist myself, so that others who made that same strange journey might find a way to deal with their own demons. I must confess however, and in deference to Doc Spatz - the only "real" heroes are those who's names are forever etched on that black granite slab in Washington.
I ask him to join me in making my annual pilgrimage, usually on Fathers day, so that I might read the names of heroes outloud. As a long active member of VVA, I can only tell him that when he sees a fellow vet hug his brother, he will just have to accept that it's something he will never come to understand. After all, he must first learn to face his own demons. Furman, Vietnam Veterans of America Chapt. I really do not have any "repressed" guilt regarding my role before, during, and after the war. I have regrets on a more global level that "we", the so called peace movement, were so ineffectual for so long, and once the war ended, so did the "peace" movement.
I thought it was more a 'end all war for ever' kind of movement, not just a "once my butt is protected and I can't get drafted I am out of here" type of movement. My "personal suffering" was, in comparison to what I have read here, minimal to non existant at best. Sure I did my two years of hospital grunt work, but I also had a helluva good time with other C. I have never held out that my experience wa equal to the bush. But - I do and did hold to the position that I did provide "a service" to my country, as the law defines it. That the system choose to see it more as punishment i.
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Those soldiers who "woke up one morning" and decided that they were opposed to war and mos instant C. I was never in the actual military. What would I have repressed or non-repressed quilt over? In hindsight I skated. I survived quite nicely while many others died, but that is how the system delt the cards, not me. I had as much input into where my two years would be spend civilian service as you did in where the Army would station you. I have sat across the proverbial couch from dozens of people, who happen also to be veterans of the Nam War.
They do not define their lives by that experience. I locak also spent as iin, if not noko, time with those veterans who never got over that defining moment, that instant that death touched down next to them, or behind them, and left them standing. Alot of survivor vets when on to trade uniforms upon release and became prison guards correctional officiers and Police Officers. I noss 's of cops in my office with jook burnout, and almost all of them were Viet Nam Vets. And yes, I helped them to the best of my ability. Many went on with their lives and mook new careers, many didn't, a few took the cold blue kiss.
Repressed guilt my friend? You don't know me enough to offer that. Frankly, there is little about me that is repressed at all. I have always had the curse of one speed, and that is full speed ahead, to give it my best shot, my all. Looking back, my only "guilt" is that I didn't do more what ever "more" isto stop my generation from going to those jungles, to that damn mistake, and yes, I have seen vets embrace each other, and I have seen the wall too, and I have seen former portestors now successful capitalists, and I have seen the walking wounded still. As a therapist yourself, you know this, or someday will, but s,uts comes a day when the well just runs out. Loval you just can't care like you used to.
When your tank hits empty. That is when you wluts up the shingle and stop. Better to pull off to the side of the road while you have the gas, than to run out while in the left lane. But that's a different story for a niok site. I think that it is a very fair loocal - honest and without animosity. I apologize for butting in here between you and Doc Spatz. Ij felt that Spatz probably felt some guilt way back in December in his response to my first post to this website. What people on both sides of the Vietnam War issue need to realize is that being "right" does nothing to alleviate Fyck. People need to look inward and ask hook, "Do I want jn person with whom I am debating to feel guilt?
Doc Spatz, I feel jn in presuming that Irv's invitation to join him at The Wall is a very sincere one. The reference to vets hugging other vets, in my opinion, illustrates the sense that ONLY another vet truly understands. Likewise, the knowledge that I have the capability to help other vets with words of kindness is a tremendous lift to my spirit. Vets know that it is not a flattering or pretty truth. Last night I had a dream about a man I onok with who was killed by a land mine. I am proud to say his name. I had pulled guard with him the night before he was killed. I remember the topic of our conversation.
Hardly ever do I have dreams of Vietnam. Rather, my waking hours are a torrent of reminders. One thing I have come to realize over these years is the best way to honor those I knew, who had not the good fortune to return to their homes and families, is to live my life to the fullest - without complaint. Never, ever give up. As Irv says, the names of the heroes are inscribed on The Wall for all to see. Andjust as those who survived such horrors as the Nazi death camps, we shall never forget - or is it fair to say that we are simply "unable" to forget.
So,when Doc suggests that we pull off the side of the road, simply because we feel ourselves "burning out" does not justify the real need to continue on, if for no other reason that future generations will not allow history to repeat itself. This again, is one reason why I spend time lecturing in schools and before any group who will listen. There are still many, who would prefer that the war in Vietnam never really existed, or for that fact, relegate it to a few nebulous paragraphs in some highschool history text. The Doc is probably aware that although there are a little more than 58, names on the wall - since there have been more than 60, suicides by Viet vets. There are also more than 74, active cases filed for Agent orange related disease, while the VA has adjudicated less than 3, most who were declared terminal including my own claim.
I believe that this is reason enough NOT to hang up the shingle, but rather to pass it on. It is always easier to play cavalier, but infinitely harder to do something about the injustices that result from wars like Vietnam. When it's etched in your mind- even pushed to the furthest nooks and crannies, it is still a part of the human psyche. Sure, I sometimes walk and talk like this had never really happened, but there still are those times when human emotion just takes hold, no matter how one bites the upper lip.
At the last "Rolling Thunder" I stood by the sidelines, watching all the bikes parade down Constitution Ave. Suddenly, I looked over, and there just a few feet away stood another man, also dressed in his war "rags" looking just as disheveled as I. He moved closer, looked at my ribbons, and then at his own, suddenly reaching his arms around my shoulders and began to sob. I could see my own tears rolling down on his lapel. My wife looked over, then gently turned her head. I know that she really tried to understand. I hope that Doc will too. Very interesting that the dialogue goes on. After such a long time, too.
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